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peril
Joined: Aug 03, 2003
Posts: 6179
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 Posted:
May 25, 2010 - 05:35 PM |
 
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Use of Turbo Squid 3D in Targetware.
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Customer 05/21/2010 07:19 PM
I build flight models for a MMG game building tool 'Targetware 2.0' and am a team member for the Target Rabaul mod project. Targetware is a core game engine that is created by the M9S corporation, but Targetware has no terrain, 3D or physics data created for us by M9S. It is up to the small mod community of followers to create all the assets/data needed to make it function as a MMG. We are not paid to do this work and it is all voluntary.
All 3D is converted to a propriety code (.graphics) using a software tool created by the M9S corporation before the mod teams release any data. Each person (user and builder) will need to pay a fee to M9S to enable their account. Currently the teams I work with have no plans to make any profit from there mods assets, although we may seek to share our server costs with the small community of followers. Each mod will run it's own server and the mod teams controls the mod assets in a restricted file area, but we do sometimes share assets (if it is OK with the creator of the asset) with other mods under the TW banner.
Before I buy any items for our mod, I thought it prudent to just seek a clarification on restrictions of use of your 3D. I have read the FAQs and it appears to me that I can use Turbo Squid 3D in my Target Rabaul Mod, but I'm no layer. I will pass this option into other teams if it is permitted so can't afford to be wrong.
1. Am I correct in my understanding that I can purchase your royalty free 3D myself and use it in the Target Rabaul Mod once converted into the Targetware '.graphics' format??
2. Am I allowed to share the Proprietary Converted 3D with 'other mod teams' under the TW banner?
Please view this link for information on what Targetware is, it's not the same as any other game on the market I know of, it's a blank slate that the the end user populates. A perfect source of potential profit for your organization if we are permitted to use your groups 3D in our community simulation project.
http://wiki.targetware.net/index.php/FAQ
Thanks for your time and please advise of any issues you can see that I have not discussed here.
Looking forward to being able to fill some of our 3D gaps.
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Response (Agnieszka) 05/21/2010 07:25 PM
I have escalated your ticket to a copyright agent for further assistance.
Sincerely,
Agnieszka
TurboSquid Member Services Representative
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Response (Christell) 05/24/2010 02:25 PM
Hi,
I want to be sure I understand the usage. You are going to be purchasing models that you will be converting into a proprietary file format. Will you be the sole person making these conversions or will others have access to the content? Can 3d content be ripped from this proprietary file type?
Regards,
TurboSquid Member Services
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Customer 05/25/2010 01:09 AM
Yes, I will be converting to a format that you cannot open, even I cannot open the format once converted into Targetware '.graphics' format.
I can be the sole holder of the file before conversion if this is required.
I'm not sure what you mean by ripped? The file will be visible to all in the game .graphics format, but no one can opened it without some kind of hack being used. It will be a part of the data pack that we build for the core engine.
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Use of Turbo Squid 3D in new simulation 'Targetware 2.0'
Discussion Thread
Response (Christell) 05/25/2010 01:57 PM
Our EULA accommodates the use of the products on our site in all forms of media. They are used in advertising, television and movies, video games, etc.
Your responsibility is to protect the intellectual property of the artist by making sure that a third party cannot access, re-sell, or re-use the files that you purchase from TurboSquid.
If you are using models in video games or software applications, you have to ensure that they are not able to be removed from the software either through encryption or proprietary file types so that the end user cannot extract the model for their own use. From what you have said, it seems that your usage should be fine.
If you need further clarification on this policy, please feel free to let us know.
Sincerely,
TurboSquid Member Services
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Peril
http://targetrabaul.org
http://perilvraaf.wordpress.com/
CORE 2 DUO E6600 2.4 GHZ
2G DDR 2, 667MHZ LEMEL
GF GTX260
CH Fighterstick USB
Perils Pedals (Analogue rudder pedals) |
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ebola-
Joined: Jun 18, 2004
Posts: 2284
Status: Offline
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| Posted:
May 25, 2010 - 06:10 PM |
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- you can't protect the textures. Better ask about this.
- you won't have any consistency by using 3rd party model, be it in quality or in specs.
-preparing existing models build by third party and modify them to your needs comes close to the same amount of work than building them from the scratch. |
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2D/3D Artist
TT: Mediterranean Air War 1940-1944
http://www.targettobruk.net |
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peril
Joined: Aug 03, 2003
Posts: 6179
Status: Offline
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May 26, 2010 - 01:13 AM |
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Yep I realize all that 
But just between you and me, we don't have any 3D or 2D guys wanting to tackle it here (TR) so instead of giving up in disgust, I'll find another way to progress until someone shows interest.
As for standards, we actually don't have any in the TR 3D textures and shading, 5 mins of looking over the TR files we have now confirms that. BUT I am doing my best to import and export with standardized texture shades, size corrections, orientation, file format and even a single texture (if that is needed), it is all about doing something constructive now to save time later.
Frankly a trained monkey could do this stuff with the right software, just finding a monkey to train. Desperate times call for cunning, determination and now possibly my money.
For now I'm happy to just buy some targets (ships etc) that will work right off the bat with no needed alterations or internals. They have some REAL nice ships from our area, 100 times better than what we have now and @ $30-00 a lot cheaper than the time needed to build one I'm sure.
What do you charge per hour?
Have asked about textures, awaiting a reply. |
_________________
Peril
http://targetrabaul.org
http://perilvraaf.wordpress.com/
CORE 2 DUO E6600 2.4 GHZ
2G DDR 2, 667MHZ LEMEL
GF GTX260
CH Fighterstick USB
Perils Pedals (Analogue rudder pedals) |
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MP
Joined: Aug 22, 2003
Posts: 1440
Status: Offline
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May 26, 2010 - 03:54 PM |
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As I percieve it you Peril are thinking of buying models to be used eg for targets and whereever theres a dire lack of anyone to work it from our ranks, right ?
So the model would be chosen to seem fit enough to be used as sold reducing the need to modify it to the least possible.
MP |
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peril
Joined: Aug 03, 2003
Posts: 6179
Status: Offline
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| Posted:
May 26, 2010 - 05:18 PM |
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Still confirming the copyright issues, the latest coms with Turbo Squid seems to indicate we have a problem with the 2D not being in proprietary code.
Not looking good.
But like all good lawyers the answer is neither yes or no, that would be to definitive
Highest possible?? Hardly definitive, in our situation the highest possible is to post a warning.
| Quote: |
Customer 05/26/2010 12:25 AM
PS
I need to ask about textures, these cannot be encoded like the 3D so where do we sit with allowing access to these? Usually stored as compressed dds files within the 3D directory.
-------------------------------------------------------------------
The issue here is that you must use the highest form of encryption possible to insure that another user cannot rip that content from the application. Posting a warning in the app that states that this content cannot be ripped and reused can help with this.
Because the textures are the intellectual property of the artist, these must be protected the same way that 3d content is protected.
Regards,
TurboSquid Member Services |
Something in my mind tells me we have been down this road before, perhaps 3 years or so back ;( |
_________________
Peril
http://targetrabaul.org
http://perilvraaf.wordpress.com/
CORE 2 DUO E6600 2.4 GHZ
2G DDR 2, 667MHZ LEMEL
GF GTX260
CH Fighterstick USB
Perils Pedals (Analogue rudder pedals) |
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ebola-
Joined: Jun 18, 2004
Posts: 2284
Status: Offline
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May 29, 2010 - 11:06 AM |
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Hmmm, you could talk with Sick about a solution... (if possible). |
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2D/3D Artist
TT: Mediterranean Air War 1940-1944
http://www.targettobruk.net |
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peril
Joined: Aug 03, 2003
Posts: 6179
Status: Offline
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| Posted:
May 29, 2010 - 05:19 PM |
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Sick seems busy but will keep trying.
Last coms with Turbo Squid indicated that 2D was indeed an issue. My solution would be to create new 2D, I have had 'some' experience in this area and could look into that after I finish the current 3D rebuilds. (almost finished B25 now) |
_________________
Peril
http://targetrabaul.org
http://perilvraaf.wordpress.com/
CORE 2 DUO E6600 2.4 GHZ
2G DDR 2, 667MHZ LEMEL
GF GTX260
CH Fighterstick USB
Perils Pedals (Analogue rudder pedals) |
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peril
Joined: Aug 03, 2003
Posts: 6179
Status: Offline
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| Posted:
May 29, 2010 - 07:43 PM |
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| Quote: | [07:35] <@sick> heya peril
[07:36] <@sick> hmm
[07:37] <@sick> ;you must use the highest form of encryption possible;
[07:37] <@sick> oops, those were supposed to be quotes, heheh
[07:37] <@sick> that phrase indicates that the person who answered you has no earthly idea what the hell they are talking about, heheheh
[07:38] <@sick> do you have a link to their actual license agreement?
[07:38] <@sick> i can't seem to find it on their website
[07:41] <@sick> ah, it varies by model
[07:41] <@sick> right, for their 'standard royalty free' license:
[07:41] <@sick> (ii) As part of a game if the Content is contained inside a proprietary format and displays inside the game during play.
[07:43] <@sick> that's the key phrase
[07:45] <@sick> it means you can absolutely use them with tw2
[07:45] <@sick> jesus, some of the models are VERY expensive for pretty second rate stuff
[07:47] <@sick> $200 spitfire that looks totally wrong, heheh
[07:48] <@sick> anyway, don't worry about the textures - 'proprietary format' is not only vague, but is an example of what they call 'incorporated content'
[07:48] <@sick> technically, dds is exactly that
[07:49] <@sick> of course, i am not a lawyer, blah blah, etc
[07:49] <@sick> but if they really want to squawk, i'll write you a container format that obfuscates the texture
[08:01] <@sick> off to sleep - email me if i haven't given you a good answer
[09:41] <Peril> Your answer is positive, it seems as though I should be OK then? It did seem to me also the the answers I was getting from Turbo Squid were vauge and non specific.
[09:57] <Peril> The container idea sounds great, if you could do that I would appreciate it. This would save me lots of time and open up oppertunities with art purchase. |
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_________________
Peril
http://targetrabaul.org
http://perilvraaf.wordpress.com/
CORE 2 DUO E6600 2.4 GHZ
2G DDR 2, 667MHZ LEMEL
GF GTX260
CH Fighterstick USB
Perils Pedals (Analogue rudder pedals)
Last edited by peril on May 29, 2010 - 07:59 PM; edited 1 time in total |
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peril
Joined: Aug 03, 2003
Posts: 6179
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| Posted:
May 29, 2010 - 07:54 PM |
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GH_Lieste
Joined: Feb 23, 2004
Posts: 2993
Location: Bath, UK
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May 29, 2010 - 10:50 PM |
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Dunno.. the poly count seems a tad high at 300,000+ for the Iowa... she is also very late war... a SoDak or an even earlier type may be a better investment? |
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peril
Joined: Aug 03, 2003
Posts: 6179
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| Posted:
May 30, 2010 - 01:25 AM |
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Examples GH, examples, the artists concerned has others to choose from. At $30-00 the early war range is a bit limited, but I'm willing to put my money where my mouth is at late war stuff as well
As for poly limits, latest I heard was it would not be an issue, but we do need to test that on something |
_________________
Peril
http://targetrabaul.org
http://perilvraaf.wordpress.com/
CORE 2 DUO E6600 2.4 GHZ
2G DDR 2, 667MHZ LEMEL
GF GTX260
CH Fighterstick USB
Perils Pedals (Analogue rudder pedals) |
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Mossie
Joined: Dec 18, 2003
Posts: 7064
Location: Torquay, UK
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May 30, 2010 - 03:16 AM |
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The Bofors 40mm is already modelled, and guns are simple models with single generic textures, so I wouldn't spend money on these items.
Poly ocunt, 300,000 is a bit much for what would be a target. We know TW2 can handle high poly counts, but given an overall scene, we are not sure of reasonable limits against fps. Testing for a million trees or other objects is fine, but there is no FM or damage so how much impact they will have is unknown. |
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Mossie
RS Dev Leader
"promptus quod subtilis"
Any Dev Team
3D Models
WW1 Aircraft Ref Library
http://ww1-aircraft.info/
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peril
Joined: Aug 03, 2003
Posts: 6179
Status: Offline
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May 30, 2010 - 06:23 AM |
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MP
Joined: Aug 22, 2003
Posts: 1440
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May 30, 2010 - 10:21 AM |
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As I understand Sick we musnt worry about Poly-count too much as the engine will handle that.
Anyway it is of course not neccessary to have eg hi poly underwater ship parts etc so there d be some easy reduction I presume.
MP |
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Mossie
Joined: Dec 18, 2003
Posts: 7064
Location: Torquay, UK
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May 30, 2010 - 10:32 AM |
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Culling polys can result in holes in the models. Most 3D tools support poly reduction, even AC3D. |
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Mossie
RS Dev Leader
"promptus quod subtilis"
Any Dev Team
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WW1 Aircraft Ref Library
http://ww1-aircraft.info/
Windows 7 |
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peril
Joined: Aug 03, 2003
Posts: 6179
Status: Offline
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| Posted:
May 30, 2010 - 05:11 PM |
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So, it seems that any concern about what poly count is moot, it can be reduced if it's needed too. I knew and considered this BTW, it's an 'obvious' consideration in choosing some 3D (not that I chose yet). Arguments against are always first to pop up, I prefer a broader consideration of all the factors and the available options. Did anyone consider perhaps as a test bed for poly limits it could be worth the $30-00? Then trial of AC3D poly cull to see if it's a viable option for us?
What the hell, it's only money, an artists time is much more valuable in more ways than one. Any artists we have here can be working on the builds 'needed' items, that we can purchase the icing at $30-00 a pop is great value.
Anyone here want to build a 300,000 poly ship for $30-00?
Then there is the option of a Short Sunderland to trial, the perfect match for a H8K. We already have planes without cockpits, so what's one more to consider.
Looking good. |
_________________
Peril
http://targetrabaul.org
http://perilvraaf.wordpress.com/
CORE 2 DUO E6600 2.4 GHZ
2G DDR 2, 667MHZ LEMEL
GF GTX260
CH Fighterstick USB
Perils Pedals (Analogue rudder pedals) |
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illo
Joined: Jan 31, 2004
Posts: 1937
Location: helsinki, finland
Status: Offline
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| Posted:
Jun 03, 2010 - 04:45 PM |
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Are you allowed to modify proprietary models?
Anyway why such hurry to have all the planes? I'd be happy if there was even one flyable plane for each side if these are made well.
With limited resources it could be that limited objectives are necessary. |
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illo Confuse-a-Cat Limited |
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peril
Joined: Aug 03, 2003
Posts: 6179
Status: Offline
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| Posted:
Jun 03, 2010 - 05:35 PM |
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Yes the purchaser can modify models, just not on sell them and they are still restricted property.
Illo, lets me analyze what you just surmised. You would be happy to wait, but I ask you 'who' is building models and what are we waiting for if no one is?
All good for you to wait but while you are waiting, no one is actually building 3D making it a LONG wait indeed. Personally I want to see TR flying sooner rather than later so I'll ignore that obstacle and go right through it.. Because I can't do it all by myself (I don't build 3D models), I am willing to buy some assets to release the pressure I place on 'myself' to move forward in other areas.
Now, can you name the artist you 'perceive' is building the few 'well made' planes for TR 2.0, I'd like to have a word with him.
Back to work. |
_________________
Peril
http://targetrabaul.org
http://perilvraaf.wordpress.com/
CORE 2 DUO E6600 2.4 GHZ
2G DDR 2, 667MHZ LEMEL
GF GTX260
CH Fighterstick USB
Perils Pedals (Analogue rudder pedals) |
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peril
Joined: Aug 03, 2003
Posts: 6179
Status: Offline
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| Posted:
Jun 04, 2010 - 07:12 PM |
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| Quote: |
Use of Turbo Squid 3D in new simulation 'Targetware 2.0'
Discussion Thread
Response (Christell) 06/04/2010 03:29 PM
I apologize for the delay in response. You just need to ensure that all content that you use is protected as much as possible from third party usage.
Regards,
TurboSquid Member Services
Customer 06/04/2010 06:10 PM
Thank you, our game designer has offered to create a process to help with this protection requirement.
We should be able to make this option work.
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_________________
Peril
http://targetrabaul.org
http://perilvraaf.wordpress.com/
CORE 2 DUO E6600 2.4 GHZ
2G DDR 2, 667MHZ LEMEL
GF GTX260
CH Fighterstick USB
Perils Pedals (Analogue rudder pedals) |
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PolarBair
Joined: Oct 07, 2006
Posts: 3
Status: Offline
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| Posted:
Jun 16, 2010 - 10:44 AM |
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I've can't seem to find a client download anywhere. This seems to be the latest thread activity in here so I'm asking here. Is Target rabaul dead? Is there a working client available for download anywhere? |
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peril
Joined: Aug 03, 2003
Posts: 6179
Status: Offline
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| Posted:
Jun 16, 2010 - 05:04 PM |
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No, not dead, it's being 'rebuilt' from the ground up.
Check back in 6 months. |
_________________
Peril
http://targetrabaul.org
http://perilvraaf.wordpress.com/
CORE 2 DUO E6600 2.4 GHZ
2G DDR 2, 667MHZ LEMEL
GF GTX260
CH Fighterstick USB
Perils Pedals (Analogue rudder pedals) |
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